Joint Task Force Pope

[chrisswim]

Cav, Redleg,

My compliments to each of you. Those Kiowa helos look great.

I may have a couple of Cobra rocket pods… that are laying around or on the attached to a wing spar that isn’t attached to a helo.

[foxbat]

That's indeed a lot of work, but the result is fine. The basswood cage will also provide added solidity to your model, good idea.

[redleg]

Thanks you guys!

My plan for non-US artillery was to create a NATO artillery regiment, with batteries from the various NATO nations, and I was going to start with the French. But here I am now with a German battalion, and a long-term plan to turn that into a brigade. Not sure if that is mission creep or just irresponsible micro armor behavior.

It is a very bare bones 3x6 cannon battalion with a mix of PzH 2000 and RCH 155 batteries. Each battery has 6 guns and 2 Fuchs FDC vehicles. It is neither accurate nor complete, but it is the foundation for my German artillery force (which will need a cool German name at some point). Over time I will beef this battalion up until it becomes 2 battalions, and then eventually my plan is for 4 battalions.

[panzergator]

I suggest you add 2 more FUCHS as the battalion hq. Later a Unimog with a shelter and generator trailer as FDC, followed by a wheeled recovery vehicle for each RCH battery and a tracked recovery vehicles for each Panzerhaubitze battery. Don't rush it. It can take a couple years for me to do that. Priorities are always rebalancing. If you don't have a panzerbattalion or panzergrenadier battalion, you hardly need an artillery regiment in support right away. I was planning to purchase engineer vehicles to support the Stryker brigade when LO! ...along came a vintage receiver I just HAD to have... And you can't put that off or it won't be available. Stryker engineers will just have to use shovels a little longer.

We both know these are long-term, evolving projects that come with complications. I really SHOULD work some trading with Chris.

[panzergator]

To add to my comments on your ADA unit for your ACR, my ACR squadron (USAREUR H TOE) includes a DIVAD M247 platoon because I had one that needed a job. I may add more, but I have other priorities right now. Chris has a box ready for me I need to take care of. More Sheridans, among other things.

[redleg]

Thank you for the feedback, PG! I like your suggestion! I want to add some older units too. I am calling them Legacy Units because that sounds fancy! LOL Maybe I could add some M163 vulcan tracks too.

[panzergator]

Ok, my German arty - currently 2 8-piece batteries. Each battery has 4 Fuchs, two for battery headquarters and one for each of the two platoons. To be added - one Unimog with generator trailer, recovery vehicle, two Unimog maintenance trucks per battery. For the battalion hq, two 10T trucks per gun, two recovery vehicles, one medical Fuchs per battery, plus two for bn, two more Unimogs w/generator trailer. The British arty regiment probably won't get the same resources anytime soon - spent the money just getting 5 batteries. It depends on what I want for each unit. I need to put together a Brit Boxer infantry battalion, as well as Boxer jager battalion. But right NOW, I'm working toward a second Stryker battalion and increasing my artillery establishment. Although we now have RCH, I will continue to put together a 105 towed bn for the Stryker brigade. 105s because the M777 will never escape their positions before counter battery fire arrives. The Stryker brigade arty WILL still include the M198 battery because I already have it. Once more, it's YOUR army and you can adjust and deviate from TOE at will.

[redleg]

I like how you are thinking PG! I am going to shamelessly steal your ideas for support vehicles for the German artillery units. I will keep looking for artillery unit references for German and British and French artillery, but I'm not gong to hod my breath.

[redleg]

I put some ideas and preferences into Google AI and asked it to create a unit crest for my German artillery unit. LOL I like it!

[redleg]

I’m sure you have seen this online, PG. I’m using this as a starting point for my German batteries and researching the different pieces. Then I’m stealing your ideas and putting it all together for my own Frankenstein artillery battalion.

I’m removing the cars and motorcycles.

FüFu stands for Führungs und Funkfahrzeug, which translates to Command and Radio Vehicle.

Flt stands for Feuerleit, which translates to Fire Control.

Based on this, I’m thinking each firing platoon (Geschützzug) will have a single Fuchs as the Flt, and the battery HQ will have 1 or 2 Fuchs as the FüFu as you have already determined for your batteries.

The Vorgeschobener Beobachter Trupp, which translates to English as Forward Observer Party, and the ABRA Gruppe will be removed from the firing battery. They will be consolidated in a recon and target acquisition battery, and they will upgrade to Joint Fire Support Teams equipped with Fennek vehicles.

I have seen some info online about Germany artillery battalions going to a 5-battery model: command & staff battery, 2 cannon batteries, MLRS battery, recon & target acquisition battery. Not sure if this is legit or not, and even so I don’t know if I want to go that route. I need to finish more batteries before I have to make that decision!

[panzergator]

I've seen the graphic before. It may stem from late 80s, just before NATO transitioned to 8-piece batteries. That said, in Germany, the size of the battery may depend on the unit being supported, so 6 or 8? I can't definitively say. Neither Youtube nor internet searches have proved completely satisfactory. It's up to us. I have two arty observation vehicles based on M113, obtained from LegionsIVHire. You might also emasculate a couple 90mm tank destroyers, as those were used for sometime as command and FO vehicles. You have many options while we wait for GHQ to make proper Boxer variants. We also need Unimogs with shelters for several functions.

I await pictures of your solutions.

[panzergator]

Redleg, your opinion... Modify Stryker with outfitters to absorb shock, equip them with 75mm pack howitzer. 1 battery, 6 pieces per battalion or 1 battalion of 18 pieces her Stryker brigade. Is it worth it for extra range?

[chrisswim]

I’m sure you have seen this online, PG. I’m using this as a starting point for my German batteries and researching the different pieces. Then I’m stealing your ideas and putting it all together for my own Frankenstein artillery battalion.

I’m removing the cars and motorcycles.

FüFu stands for Führungs und Funkfahrzeug, which translates to Command and Radio Vehicle.

Flt stands for Feuerleit, which translates to Fire Control.

Based on this, I’m thinking each firing platoon (Geschützzug) will have a single Fuchs as the Flt, and the battery HQ will have 1 or 2 Fuchs as the FüFu as you have already determined for your batteries.

The Vorgeschobener Beobachter Trupp, which translates to English as Forward Observer Party, and the ABRA Gruppe will be removed from the firing battery. They will be consolidated in a recon and target acquisition battery, and they will upgrade to Joint Fire Support Teams equipped with Fennek vehicles.

I have seen some info online about Germany artillery battalions going to a 5-battery model: command & staff battery, 2 cannon batteries, MLRS battery, recon & target acquisition battery. Not sure if this is legit or not, and even so I don’t know if I want to go that route. I need to finish more batteries before I have to make that decision!

This is good stuff. Thank you for sharing.

[redleg]

Redleg, your opinion... Modify Stryker with outfitters to absorb shock, equip them with 75mm pack howitzer. 1 battery, 6 pieces per battalion or 1 battalion of 18 pieces her Stryker brigade. Is it worth it for extra range?

I like the way you think, PG! I like the idea, but I think it will depend on the role they have.

I am totally down with fire support on a Stryker chassis that can keep up with the unit when it moves, provide close fires, and then rapidly displace. But I wonder if a 75mm pack howitzer has a significantly greater range than the 120mm mortars, which have a bigger boom (about 3 pounds of HE in a 120mm round versus 1 pound in a 75mm round). If you could figure out how to put a 105mm howitzer onto a Stryker without breaking it, i think that would be ideal. The grunts in a Stryker brigade should mostly be fighting on foot, so 105mm fire support should suffice.

I have read about the Hawkeye 105mm howitzer system that has been developed, and last I read the Army was testing it out. It's a 105mm howitzer on a HMMWV with a "soft recoil system" that allows it to fire from the HMMWV without destroying it. But the soft recoil system significantly reduces the range, which makes me a little nervous.

Bottom line though, I think a Stryker with something like a 75mm howitzer would be cool for an infantry battalion fire support asset, but I think probably not for the brigade's DS artillery battalion. The reduced range would hinder the brigade commander's ability to shape the battlefield by hitting deeper targets.

[panzergator]

You get about 1000mwters more range with the 75mm. After looking into it a little more, it doesn't seem to be worth it. Since the Stryker is not amphibious, it may be useful as a prime mover for the 105mm gun. I agree that the 105mm is a good fit for the Stryker brigade arty. Perhaps we will see Hawkeye adapted for a Stryker chassis. Canada is doing an LAV RCH. We may opt for that, if we can make nice with Canada again.