Hoth's Corner

[redleg]

Hell yeah Brother! those look pretty awesome!

[panzergator]

So the P47s, even with drop tanks, will have to turn back before they ever reach your stuff, Hoth! As usual, Chris...

[pmskaar]

Hi Hoth

Great work on your unit!

I know we have talked about some of these things before. I think it was Gary Davies that posted the information on the II/11th regiment here in response to a question I had. I had decided to do the II/11th Panzer Regiment for my own unit after getting the book III. Panzer Korps at KURSK by Didier Lodieu which is part of the Histoire and Collections series.

The book does list the various types of tanks in each company and the numbers but not exactly how the platoons were organized in terms of which platoon had what equipment. The 6th Panzer at this time had 1 tank battalion with 4 companies. Each company had a mix of Panzer IIIs and IVs and the book details whether the Panzer IIIs are the 50mm or 75mm (Pz IIIN) types. It does not detail whether the Panzer IVs were G's or H's or maybe even a few older Panzer IVF's.

Before I received the information from Gary, which is the same information in Panzertruppen, I had to kind of "wing it" a bit with my own organization. I have the company numbers as correct as I can determine but my organization and numbering at the platoon level may be off a bit based on the April organization as indicated. I did not know, at that time, that the Germans mixed their Panzer IIIs and IVs in the same platoon during this time.

For my Panzer IIIs, I also used GHQ's L,M, and N models. There may have been some Panzer IIIJ's as well but I figured that by this time most, if not all of those would have been upgraded. My unit is a mix of Panzer III's with sideskirts (mostly) but a few here and there with only turret skirts or in some cases no skirts at all.

For my Panzer IVs, I chose to use GHQ's older Panzer IVH model for now. I will be using these for other battles. My reasoning is that the late G model which is the one that GHQ makes and the H model are hard to tell apart and with sideskirts added the differences are small indeed. I may, at some point, use a couple G's in the mix without sideskirts for more variety. My recollection is that Panzer IVH production began in April 1943 and by July some of these would be at the front but not enough to completely replace the G.

Light vs Medium. I think that in mid 1943 the Germans were still designating Panzer companies as either light or medium although the light companies were starting to get Panzer IV's and the medium company might have some Panzer III's as in the case of 6th Panzer.

The 7th Panzer had a different organization in the companies with 2 battalions of 3 companies each. the 3rd and 6th companies each had 15 Panzer IVs only. The 19th also had a different organization from the other two.

It is certainly an interesting time to model any German Panzer unit and it seems no 2 units were organized exactly the same ... at least in the IIId Panzer Korps.

[Hoth_902]

Pete,

Thanks for your feedback on my work. As for past conversation, you are correct, I think we might be crossing over previously covered ground. However, I think you added some context and detail to previous conversations and references. As always I appreciate your input and knowledge.

As I do my research, which includes input from you and others, I am finding it interesting to how the Germans rolled in the new PzIVs. It is interesting how the different units parsed them out with in the larger organization. Like you, I am only using the Pz IV Gs and am not adding any PzIVHs. With that said, I am marrying the PzIVH Turrets to some of my PzIV G Chassis. I had read somewhere that the only visual difference between the G and H turret is the two door hatch on the Gs and the one door hatch on the Hs. I further read that some of the later production Gs were built with the single door hatch on the turret. So that is my validation for the G chassis to the H Turret mix. This gives me the ability to have PzIVGs with side plates on the turret, to add variations. When it comes to the Chassis, the only difference I noticed between them is that the Driver and Radio operator hatch has a small bump on the one and the other does not. I will take a look and maybe post a picture. Otherwise it seems, like you pointed out, that the two GHQ PzIVs are about the same.

Moving on to the PzIIIs, Like you, my 1943 Kursk Regiment rely's heavily on PzIII L, M and Ns for the bulk of the formation. The only exception is the Command tanks in the HQ companies. Based on a book that have production data that includes numbers and dates of manufacturing, I think the PzIIIJs were converted to Command tanks and present during kursk. As a result, I have 5 PzIII Js that are being used for that role.

As always, thanks for your feedback, modeling tips and reference information.

[pmskaar]

Hi Hoth

I am happy to provide whatever inspiration I can .... even if it means helping to get more of my own stuff done.

Keep up the good work!

[Hoth_902]

Thanks again Pete... I have 4 more vehicles left to camo up. Then the real fun starts with all the Tools, Tow Cables and other detail. So close to Decals being applied.. My tigers should be ready to go and I have been tossing around the idea of doing them in blue tactical numbers. Also saw that Flight Deck decals now has Tactical symbols for Kursk.... Might have to get those... However, My brain my be trying to write checks my abilities can't cash... LOL.

[pmskaar]

Hi Hoth

Yeah, the details are the real nitty-gritty of painting these things. For my Tigers from the 503rd battalion, 2nd compsny, I did a bit of online research and went with black tactical numbers with white outline. That is how they appear in the pictures I have seen. I have included just one of the pictures I used on the internet when I was researching the 503rd.

Here are a couple pictures of my finished Tigers of 2nd Company, 503rd Schwere.

[Hoth_902]

Hey Pete,
Thanks for the pictures and the information. Beautiful tigers. Sounds like I am going to need to do a little more research on my tank numbers to make sure I am close to something accurate. Turns out I have a hodge podge of tactical numbers that cover a range of stuff. I really need to pay more attention on what i am buying and what my goal is. LOL.

[chrisswim]

Hoth, okay… which picture did you paint your GHQ model? Please put your painted model in here.
Thank you.

Excellent work.

[Hoth_902]

Chris,
Not sure what your are asking me, I have several pictures of what I am currently working on. In an effort to not be repetitive and show the same vehicles at the same stage, the next time I post will be once I start applying decals. There is some small detail work that needs to happen before that I get to decals and worth posting.

[Mickel]

It's a very tongue-in-cheek suggestion that your models are too well painted to be mere 1:285th scale pieces of art.

I would not be concerned. Please keep them coming!

[Hoth_902]

Mickel,

Not sure if you were referring to my pieces or Pete's. If its Pete's, I would agree that they are well painted pieces of art. I love how he captures the warn paint look and the more subdued camo patterns. My skills are not there yet, but will be there in future. If you are referring to my pieces, thanks. I decided to go with hard lines, which are accurate based on what I have read. It works well with my lower skill level at this time. I am happy with the way these recent pieces have come out. I am already thinking about ways I can improve on future pieces. Never Fear, there will be more pics in the future. I have a lot of projects on my work bench...

[chrisswim]

Hoth, your damn ‘Tiger’ looks awesome!! ‘Incredible fantastic. Looks tooooo much like the picture.
Mickel assessed my evaluation correctly. You could super-impose your Tiger for the real Tiger in the picture.

[chrisswim]

Hope that helps explain it. Your work looks so realistic.

[Hoth_902]

I hade this whole response written where I deflected from the compliment.....I decided to change it to simply say thanks. I appreciate all the feedback back from everyone on the site and tips and support from artist like Pete and so many others on the forum. More to come.