I accidentally posted thes topic initially to the Show Us Your Stuff thread and decided to start a new thread here so that people find it more easily.
I am going to be doing some Crusader I/II's in the near future and probably some Crusader III's sometime later. The question I have for you experts out there is what was the darker color on the 2 tone scheme. Some sources I have seen state it was black or faded black but I have seen other references such as the old Desert Tracks that indicate some shade of green was used as the color over the sand. I also have a copy of the instruction sheet for the Italieri 1/35th scale Crusader III which shows earth brown at El Alamein on some of these as well.
My question is this. Is there one correct color or were there all these colors used and at what times if any? I am interested in your expert input here.
Thanks.
Pete - Binpicker, Out!
Crusader Camo scheme
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tstockton
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Pete,
Posted this in the "Show Us Yer Stuff" thread... but just to "tie it in" with your posting in this thread...
Have you seen "Armored Acorn: The Canadian and Commonwealth Armoured Vehicle Web-Site"? Fantastic references... click on References, then Non-Canadian Vehicle Markings, then scroll down to Part 25: Early Desert.
Armored Acorn: The Canadian and Commonwealth Armoured Vehicle Web-Site
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Tom
Posted this in the "Show Us Yer Stuff" thread... but just to "tie it in" with your posting in this thread...
Have you seen "Armored Acorn: The Canadian and Commonwealth Armoured Vehicle Web-Site"? Fantastic references... click on References, then Non-Canadian Vehicle Markings, then scroll down to Part 25: Early Desert.
Armored Acorn: The Canadian and Commonwealth Armoured Vehicle Web-Site
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Tom
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pmskaar
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Crusader Camo scheme
Hi Tom
I actually did previously check Armored Acorn which is a great site and it has been on my favorite list for some time now. I haven't seen anything on the Crusader as yet so that is why I was looking for input on this. Thanks very much for the reply.
Pete - Binpicker, Out!
I actually did previously check Armored Acorn which is a great site and it has been on my favorite list for some time now. I haven't seen anything on the Crusader as yet so that is why I was looking for input on this. Thanks very much for the reply.
Pete - Binpicker, Out!
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Donald M. Scheef
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Ritter
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Re: Crusader Camo scheme
Hey there Pete:pmskaar wrote:I accidentally posted thes topic initially to the Show Us Your Stuff thread and decided to start a new thread here so that people find it more easily.
I am going to be doing some Crusader I/II's in the near future and probably some Crusader III's sometime later. The question I have for you experts out there is what was the darker color on the 2 tone scheme. Some sources I have seen state it was black or faded black but I have seen other references such as the old Desert Tracks that indicate some shade of green was used as the color over the sand. I also have a copy of the instruction sheet for the Italieri 1/35th scale Crusader III which shows earth brown at El Alamein on some of these as well.
My question is this. Is there one correct color or were there all these colors used and at what times if any? I am interested in your expert input here.
Thanks.
Pete - Binpicker, Out!
If you mean this:
and not the 'Caunter pattern' which was a sharp edged 3-color pattern, my research is that it is a dark grey/green color, similar to Black-green used in NWE late in the war but more faded...it may be the same color just bleached out with the sun...
Once dusted up a bit bby the desert, it could even look blueish...
Troy
Last edited by Ritter on Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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pmskaar
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Crusader Camo scheme
Hi Troy
Yes! That's what I'm talking about and thanks very much. I have access to several refences on this scheme but I'm trying to resolve some differences between sources as to the actual color. One source says green, one or 2 say black, and the Osprey book plus the Italieri instructions for the Crusader III have the color as an earth brown. My confusion on this is as I stated; I'm not sure if there is one correct color here or if all 3 may be possible at either different times or even at the same time for different tanks or units in 8th Army. The Armored Acorn Crusader II shows an all sand colored vehicle which some units had as well.
I also have reference to a color chart that I downloaded for British tanks in WWII which gives the mixing instructions for the colors using Humbrol paints.
Great work on your Crusader, Troy! What color did you use for the camo pattern? I use Humbrols like you do and was curious as to the color. Thanks very much.
Pete
Yes! That's what I'm talking about and thanks very much. I have access to several refences on this scheme but I'm trying to resolve some differences between sources as to the actual color. One source says green, one or 2 say black, and the Osprey book plus the Italieri instructions for the Crusader III have the color as an earth brown. My confusion on this is as I stated; I'm not sure if there is one correct color here or if all 3 may be possible at either different times or even at the same time for different tanks or units in 8th Army. The Armored Acorn Crusader II shows an all sand colored vehicle which some units had as well.
I also have reference to a color chart that I downloaded for British tanks in WWII which gives the mixing instructions for the colors using Humbrol paints.
Great work on your Crusader, Troy! What color did you use for the camo pattern? I use Humbrols like you do and was curious as to the color. Thanks very much.
Pete
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Ritter
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Pete,
Always admired your work - and we share the same paint type - Humbrol.
The base color is 71, the camo 32. Wash is dark rust.
I have read sources that have the color as d.brown as well...probably was painted as such on some occations but the photo references I have all seem to look very dark as in d.green or grey-black.
Being somewhat of a packrat when it comes to military stuff, I have kept all my instructions sheets from all the models I built as a kid and in my early adult years. I dug into the file and found a sheet for the Italeri Crusader III (circa 1975 ?!? - my second favorite British tank behind the Matilda
sure wish we had a Matilda I) and it has a Dark Earth camo color for the 7th Hussars/4th Arm. This may be so for that unit in that theater.
I think there was a great variance in the colors used in N. Africa and Earth and D. Green would both be correct.
Troy
Always admired your work - and we share the same paint type - Humbrol.
The base color is 71, the camo 32. Wash is dark rust.
I have read sources that have the color as d.brown as well...probably was painted as such on some occations but the photo references I have all seem to look very dark as in d.green or grey-black.
Being somewhat of a packrat when it comes to military stuff, I have kept all my instructions sheets from all the models I built as a kid and in my early adult years. I dug into the file and found a sheet for the Italeri Crusader III (circa 1975 ?!? - my second favorite British tank behind the Matilda
sure wish we had a Matilda I) and it has a Dark Earth camo color for the 7th Hussars/4th Arm. This may be so for that unit in that theater. I think there was a great variance in the colors used in N. Africa and Earth and D. Green would both be correct.
Troy
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pmskaar
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Crusader Camo scheme
Troy
Thanks very much for the compliment. Coming from you that is high praise indeed as just about everyone here on the forum agrees that you are one of the best.
I appreciate your getting back to me on this and I agree that there may have actually been a couple of colors that were used. One of the colors that is mentioned sometimes is called slate which is actually a dark gray-green. I have a color mixing chart for British Vehicle Camoflage by Mike Starmer and Mike Cooper that I printed off a while back which gives the formula in Humbrol paint numbers as #32 - Dark Gray, + 81 - Pale Yellow, + #117 U.S. Light Green in the ratio of 4:2:1 or #111 + touch of 102 as a fair alternative. Of course there are fading, weathering and scale considerations as well. The chart indicates this tends to fade to gray #111 which is listed as Field Gray which is what I may go with here. This chart is an excellent aid to what the colors actually were and how to acheive them by mixing Humbrol paints.
Thanks again for the help Troy and I will be starting this project in the not too distant future among my myriads of other things to do.
Pete - Binpicker, Out!
Thanks very much for the compliment. Coming from you that is high praise indeed as just about everyone here on the forum agrees that you are one of the best.
I appreciate your getting back to me on this and I agree that there may have actually been a couple of colors that were used. One of the colors that is mentioned sometimes is called slate which is actually a dark gray-green. I have a color mixing chart for British Vehicle Camoflage by Mike Starmer and Mike Cooper that I printed off a while back which gives the formula in Humbrol paint numbers as #32 - Dark Gray, + 81 - Pale Yellow, + #117 U.S. Light Green in the ratio of 4:2:1 or #111 + touch of 102 as a fair alternative. Of course there are fading, weathering and scale considerations as well. The chart indicates this tends to fade to gray #111 which is listed as Field Gray which is what I may go with here. This chart is an excellent aid to what the colors actually were and how to acheive them by mixing Humbrol paints.
Thanks again for the help Troy and I will be starting this project in the not too distant future among my myriads of other things to do.
Pete - Binpicker, Out!